TELEPHONE
INTERVIEW
DONNA
LAFRAMBOISE (“DL”) AND [Tim] ADAMS (“PA”)
PA: Hello.
DL: Hello may I
speak to Mr. Adams?
PA: Speaking.
DL: Hi, it’s Donna
Laframboise.
PA: Oh, hi.
DL: How are you?
PA: Oh, not too
bad.
DL: Um, I’m glad I caught you, I just have
about 30 minutes and then I have to leave, but um, is this a good time to chat?
PA: Indeed.
DL: Great. You, your um, ! also want to assure
you that you were on my list of the many people to call.
PA: Right.
DL: So um, I was
going to get to you, so I'm glad we reconnected today.
PA: Right.
DL: Um, I, I am ah
with the National Post as you probably know.
PA: Yeh, yeah I’ve
read a bunch of your work.
DL: Cool.
PA: Yeah.
DL: And ah, we are doing a story on ah on your
election last week and the reason it’s considered news is because ah if the Red
Cross or ah the local gym, you know if it was ah if it was YMCA gym ah elected
someone as Vice-President who ah had
your background it would be news and unfortunately it’s news if its a
non-custodial parents rights group as well.
PA: Oh, I see. Well um first of all I'm not a non-custodial parent I have my children
most
of the time. [In print, only 'I'm not a non-custodial parent' was
reported, which doesn't even say
that he is a parent, and says nothing about the
amount of parenting time he was awarded.]
[Next]
GG00515
-2-
DL: Well good for
you.
PA: Um, and that’s my primary concern, is that
my children don’t need to, to see this in the paper.
DL: Well, um, I don’t know what to say um you
know you ran for this position and you were elected for the position and that
becomes news.
PA: Right.
DL: Um, you know
were, we are not making
the news we are reacting to it.
PA: Right.
[Right after starting the conversation, giving him no
chance to defend himself or explain anything, she says:]
DL: Um, if what you are telling me is
that you resined, um then you know my editor is probably going to tell me there
is no story anymore, um but if, if um that’s not the case then you know I don’t
know what to say.
[As seen from all
preceding words, he wasn't telling her any such thing--his resigning was her idea.]
PA: Right.
Um, yeah that, that might be my position, um but um you know there, there’s
some larger issues here, um with respect to um, is, is that the only issue
you’re writing about or I understand there’s others. [As we've seen, to the president the reporter
later demanded his removal
from ECMAS, not just from office--but said nothing to
DL: Oh,
you do, well. Well um the article is, is in it’s um *, um I’m in the
information gathering stage at the moment, um we have a thesis a working thesis
wether this thesis will end up being um supported by the information we gather
or not remains to be seen, the thesis is that um that um someone with a
unsavoury background is, is an official in a community organization. A
community organization with long and honourable history, um but at this recent
election um *******.
PA: Right.
DL: That’s our thesis.
PA: Oh I
see, ok, well from that, that point of
view um you know you can ah you know I
obviously, my, my children come first and they don’t need to read about this so if um that’s the decision I have to make I consider it
made.
DL: Okay.
Well ah, ah um. Let's be careful,
sorry I, I, let's step back a minute cause,
I, I don't want to be in the position that in any, in any way w[h]ere you think that I'm telling you what to do
because I'm not, what I am telling you is that what happened last week is news.
PA: Uh-huh.
DL: If
you are telling me that the situation is, has changed or if you were to tell me
then, you know I would have to back to
my editor and have a discussion, it’s always possible that my editor would say
well it's news anyway.
PA: Uh-huh. GG00516
-3-
DL: Um, you know I don’t have a crystal ball. [Note also the reporter's
insistence that her editor would make any such decisions--so recall that
question of whether she even had a
supervising editor.] [Back]
PA: Right.
DL: Um, and I don't wart you to
misunderstand, because the last thing I want to be doing as a journalist is
making news. [Review her words above: here too, it was in the very process
of pressuring the interviewee's decisions that she admitted doing so is
improper.]
[Back]
PA: Uh-huh.
DL: So, are we
clear about that or
PA: I, I don’t think that changes my position
as, as, as a father and a responsible father, regardless of what happened five
years ago, um I cannot afford being, be it news worthy or not to put my
children’s a reputations in jeopardy, and if I have to resign from this
position to at the very least reduce the chance of that being publicized then
that's the position that of an overabundance caution I have to take.
DL: Right. Um well is the minute you, um, you
know you have a resignation letter or have notified someone of your resignation
and um you know you can tell me about that, um, I’d be as they say I have to
leave in twenty minutes now, for I have a commitment in * and I have to drive
there from Toronto, um so, wether that can happen now
or wether it’s something that can happen tomorrow morning, as as soon as, you know, the story
has changed I will go to my editor and talk to him. ---->
PA: Well, consider it changed I will certainly
advise the rest of the organization that due to circumstances um beyond my
control perhaps, due to a change in circumstances I am um ah not in a position
to remain as ah to, to accept the um appointment of Vice-President or however
else you want to word it.
DL: Okay,
okay, okay, now while I have you on the line can I ask you a few other
questions?
PA: Uh-huh.
DL: Um,
because my editor is going to ask me these.
Um some of the people that I have spoken to
have alleged that you are um doing legal or paralegal work for some of the people
who go to the support group meetings. [The above
page 2 is also full of talk
of needing permissions from
her editor, as are pp. 11-12 (linked elsewhere) of the Bouvier interview.] [Next]
PA: Um, yeah, what we do or what I do is um we I help people like they have the
self- representation packages at the Court House
DL: Okay.
PA: and so if you don’t have a lawyer you go
pick these things up and they um tell you step by step how to how to get
through them, right?
DL: Right.
GG00517
-4-
PA: Um, by and
large they’re still pretty complicated and ah and you know if you don’t
have a good ah if you’re not very literate um which a lot of
our people aren’t, their
in trades that might make them a hundred grand but you know
their basic reading
a writing skills are a problem for them, so they come to me
and I actually, well what
I do is I ah I you know some of them I charge them you know
if they have no money
as a lot of these chaps don’t you know most of my work I do
for free
DL: Okay.
PA: You know more than fifty percent, um and,
and I, I don’t give people legal advice, in fact I have a waiver they all sign that
says I am not a lawyer, I’m not a
Barrister & Solicitor or member of
the Law Society of Alberta
DL: Okay.
PA: Um, it says that I do not provide legal
advice, and any form whatsoever and anything I say is not to be construed as
such
DL: Okay.
PA: and it also says that if you require
representation, legal advice or opinions you must contact a lawyer or barrister
& solicitor that’s a licenced with the Law Society of Alberta and a
everyone I um I deal with on um as a client if you would like has to
sign that if they if they don’t agree with that then you know they have to go
to a lawyer or something or someone else.
DL: Uh-huh.
uh-huh.
PA: Most, most, most of my work um having this
happened to me in ‘96 and ah I used to
do pretty much criminal law and then I became involved in *[ECMAS] you know for
personal support cause I was going through a divorce and separation and ah there
was just a need for someone with ah some
knowledge of the legal system to help people cope and ah you know someone that understands how the system works even from just a theoretical
point of view, help educate people, and that’s what we do most of all is we have support
group meetings and we educate people and even
in our support group meetings we have a disclaimer we read every single time
that says any advice you get here, medical, legal, religious, non of us are
qualified experts, everything you hear, hear, hear that you think might be
close you go to your lawyer, your doctor, your priest and you get
the proper advice, [Back] we just handle people, and a for the most part people that come and see
me, 90% of it is um I guess you could call it divorce counselling because
people want someone to talk to and
reconcile things with and you know the legal process, processes is a is not the
major component in a lot of cases.
DL: Right.
PA: People need someone that understands what
it’s like to go through and why the court system is so scary, like I tell
people all about you know Queen’s Bench means that higher court than
GG00518
-5-
DL: Uh-huh,
uh-huh.
PA: and it’s it’s very scary for these people,
intimidating and they think their never gonna see their kids again and you know
sometimes they go to lawyers or, or in some cases non lawyers that give legal
advice, um that um you know I, I, I’m in no position to question it because
even though you might get some advocates giving legal advice in writing and I,
I strongly disagree with it, I’m in no position to say well that’s wrong and
I’m right.
DL: Right, Right.
PA: They have, they have to go to a lawyer and
take that letter they got from some family advocate and, whoever it may be I’m,
I’m not identifying anyone, they’ve got to take it to a lawyer and um have it
assessed.
DL: Right, Right. Now um ok so I hear you when you say that um
most of what, most of the people that
your helping, your helping for free cause they don’t have a lot of money, but
those ones that you charge how much would you charge?
PA: Well,
it kind of varies depending on um on you know what, what they can afford, you know if some, some chaps come along and say, you know,
I’ve got fifty bucks can you, can you help me write an Affidavit, which is just
a story, um you know it could be anything I mean it, I don’t really have um a
set rate for anyone.
DL: Okay.
PA: You know,
it's, it's no where near what a lawyer would charge at all.
DL: Okay, okay.
PA: But they, you know, I’m a registered
business and affordable paralegal services, I have a business licence, everyone
gets receipts, I do my taxes, everything’s properly reported
DL: Sorry its
called affordable business paralegal?
PA: affordable
paralegal services.
DL: Okay, okay.
PA: And that’s a registered trade name, it's
licenced out of the City of
DL: Right,
right. Now I’m sorry to be saying some of these things but I’ve been you know talking to people and, and um you know they’ve
been saying some not nice things and I want to give you an opportunity to
respond
[Note well that she never
spoke to him of his presence reflecting on any falsely accused persons in the
group.]
PA: Sure.
GG00519
-6-
DL: you know like your side of the story. Um,
but one of these things that, that, that a couple of people have
alleged is, is they feel that maybe your not particularly interested in,
in non-custodial parents rights, that your real purpose to going to the, the
meetings is, is to get business for yourself or your paralegal business. [We'll see her deceit over this "couple of people"
shortly. Here the point is that her "opportunity to respond" was an
empty shell, not including names of the accusers or any of the alleged facts published later.] [Next]
PA: Oh, nothing could be further from the truth.
In fact um we run the support group meetings and I’m one of the co-chairs of
the support group, um that’s been in existence for um oh geese over two years
now, and I spend um probably six hours on every Tuesday
um meeting, we have a formal meeting and then, and then we have a, a less formal
gathering here afterwards at a you know a restaurant or something and it
continues and um you know that’s all volunteer time
DL: Yea, okay.
PA: and um I would say for, I, I would say maybe
a quarter of my clients, if that, come from a ECMAS
DL: Okay.
PA: and a the balance come just from other
lawyers, personal contacts, people that know me, referrals from referrals and
we do things like um uncontested divorces, um pardons, um you know those sorts
of things which um you know, you don’t have to be a lawyer to do.
DL: Right.
PA: In
fact if, if I had to analyse the amount of time I put into the ECMAS as opposed to the paying
clients, it would come out to probably below minimum wage.
DL: Okay.
PA: Um, I get, um we have the men’s help line
and a if the guy is calling from jail there is no way he could become a client
because he’s broke, kicked out of house and has no job.
DL: Right.
PA: I’ve spent hours talking to these people,
you know
DL: So you, you were a volunteer for the help line?
PA: Um, not directly, but if, if somebody calls
up and um you know they, they um, you know can’t take the call or you know
somebody’s got to get back to this person and I’m one of the people that a help
with the help line and calling some of these people back
DL: Okay. GG00520
-7-
PA: and seeing, you know, if, if we can, most of
the time we’re um, um directing them for basic services, like I’ve got a I’ve
just got kicked out and there are these allegations I’m charged with this, this
and this, I got nowhere to live, so you know we have to kinda tell them to go
to the a Salvation Army or the George Spadey House or YMCA and you know in the
odd occasion myself have given these people some money or given them a ride or
given them some direction, um, you know we do a hell of a lot of you know,
volunteer and charitable work.
DL: Right, right.
PA: And as, as well you know, a guy sometimes,
they say, well I’ve got this piece of paper and ya, you know maybe they won’t
read terribly well and um you know, we'll help them and um most of most of the
people who call me that are employed or have good jobs I, I just refer them to
lawyers because we try and keep a, keep track of the lawyers that are somewhat
sympathetic to our calls[cause] at least and a
you know we, that’s one of my jobs,
trying to lawyer people up, whether it be legal aid or fully paying clients.
DL: Right, right, now I’ve also heard that um that
some people have felt pressured to fire their lawyers and
instead to um to become one of your clients. [She
again gave no names
or even details of any
alleged events--and didn't speak my name anywhere in the interview. (At this
point in
her interviews, the reporter
had heard the claim only from Ms. Malenfant (and the emphatic denial by Source
A). But she could have called
Mr. dams back later with details of any such accusations, and never did.] [Next]
PA: No, that, we, you know, everyone I speak to
that’s being represented by, by their own counsel their, they um, they’ll come
to the meeting for example and say well you know my lawyer is not doing this,
my lawyer is not doing that and um you know, in those situations um there’s,
there’s the posib.., the whole, we have so many people that are dissatisfied
with the service some of the lawyers are providing
DL: Yep. Yep, I’ve heard that a million times.
PA: Ya, and that’s there, there’s um there’s
alternatives available, we, we hand out a list at the meetings, there’s a whole
list of um, a self help packages, we ***[avail
them of that list], if, if you can at
most of the time it's not so much their not happy with their lawyer, they can’t
afford it anymore, they’ve paid ten, twenty grand and um and they don’t seem to
be progressing and sometimes
when we talk to the people, you know in groups and so on a lot of them just
don’t understand what, what their lawyer is doing for them and how the system
works and you know half the time we’re telling them well actually your lawyer
is doing what she can and a that’s it.
DL: Right.
PA: You know you can’t expect miracles and we’ve
heard horror stories where um it seems when there’s always two sides to these
stories, because you know when they come to us we only get one side and you
know you have to question these people quite closely to find out, you know what
really is going on and why certain things have happened in certain ways and
then you know all of a sudden the lawyers aren’t the bad guy anymore.
DL: Right. GG00521
-8-
PA: It’s because of something that’s happened
that your case has taken unparticular!y
unpleasant turn.
DL: Right, right.
PA: So as far as um pressure to um dump your
lawyer and higher [Tim], they all know
I can not provide legal advice and don’t provide legal advice I can help
you fill out forms and some of your paper work or do it on contested divorce
but a you know I can’t go into Court and do anything for you the law society
would be most upset.
DL: Right, now some paralegals do act as agents for people
in Court
PA: Right. [Back]
DL: Um, have you ever done that?
PA: Um, that’s um, um anyone can act as anyone’s
agent but the legal profession act a
was recently amended and ah, ah anyone who is a disbarred person cannot
act in that capacity, at least in, in
relation to provincial legislation.
DL: Okay.
PA: It’s, it’s um, I, I took professional advice
on this and I was advised um by a lawyer from Ontario actually, ah that ah you
know that might not be applicable to Criminal Code because um, there you have
an agent provision but that being Federal Legislation and the Legal Profession
Act being Provincial Legislation it, it might create some doubt as to whether
that’s enforceable.
DL: Okay. Now one of the things that um, that I
have to admit that I would be concerned about is, I go to a
support group and my life is a mess and I’m, you know its in turmoil and I’m up
to my ears in trouble and I don’t understand what’s going on and there’s some
very nice people there um and one of them offers to help me, except I then later find out that this man you know
has, has, has had some unpleasantness in his past and I feel a little betrayed
that no one told me about it, that I wasn’t allowed to make a fully informed
decision about whether I wanted this person helping me or not.
PA: Um,
most, before I formally take someone as a client, of course um they have to
acknowledge those factors I told you before about my limitations and [Earlier in this
interview he describes
telling clients about his being disbarred and hence unable to represent them.
(The fact
that he advertised his law
degree virtually guaranteed that he
would have to tell prospective clients this.)]
DL: Right.
PA: what
they can expect. And I would say most of the people ask me, you know, why
aren’t you a lawyer anymore, what happened, and I tell them.
DL: Right [Recall from earlier
in My Case all those who confirmed this to the reporter--and yet she
published Source A's
accusation with only Mr. Adams' denial to counter it.] [Back] GG00522
-9-
PA: Even to the extent of ah showing them a copy
of the newspaper article which is about as sensational as you can get, it makes
it much worse than the actual facts, but
DL: So what do you tell them?
PA: Pardon.
DL: So what do you tell them? If I’m, if I’m
asking you right now ah you know why aren’t you a lawyer anymore, what would
you say?
PA: That I was disbarred um ah in ‘98 for a situation that arose in 1996 where I was um representing a 16 year old prostitute, I suggested to her we go on a date umand um that came to the attention of the police um and they said about um things transpired wherein she agreed to wear a wire, repeat the offer to me, well I got her boyfriend out of jail first, and ah then she invited me to her place ah her room and a then I was arrested. And consequently the Law Society um had a hearing and as a result of that I was disbarred, as a result of my feelings[dealings] with this young person, I ah received a ah 15 month conditional sentence, which was served without incident and I’ve paid my debt to society and have moved on.
DL: Right, has anyone ever said um you know now
that I know that I don’t want anything to do with you?
PA: Absolutely zero.
DL: Okay. How many people do you think, sorry
I’m trying to get a sense of you know have you had this experience with
hundreds of people or dozens of people or
PA: Probably, probably dozens of people, um
maybe a couple hundred over, over the past two years, maybe I maybe I don’t
know I would have to sort of count my waiver sheets.
DL: Sure, sure.
PA: But um, I, I only started um I started using
the waiver, you know just, just to make double sure, but um you know I repeat
it to them several times verbally and just, cause I, I don’t want these sort of
problems that are cropping up now where somebody’s going to make these
allegations and they haven’t even seen a copy of the waiver.
DL: Right, right.
PA: And um so that's, that’s when I, that's
what, well I just better take steps to, cause you know because nobody confirms
what I said or what they heard
DL: Yep.
GG00523
-10-
PA: so I just
better cast this in writing and so you know we’re, we’re all on the same page
DL: Right, right.
PA: And, and I don’t take large retainers from
anyone, I don’t take you know five grand off anyone, I say you know, ya we’ll,
we’ll always try and ah, um establish you know what their means are and if they
have a, um a real legitimate case and, and their just getting screwed but they
don’t have a clue how to even ah write an Affidavit, you know, even, even the
format, you know I’ll do it free if it’s, you know if they have no other
alternative, that's what the group does
DL: Right
PA: Um, but you know a lot of people aren’t in
that position and their able to pay then you know they pay, but they get a
receipt
DL: Right.
PA: and that’s a fee for service kind of thing,
but I, I don’t tell them what to do, I said you now this, you have to make all
the decisions, you know.
DL: Right. Okay, I have rap this up really
quickly unfortunately, ah just two small things um, and then I, I, I’ll have to
get back to you tomorrow about what my editor says, about whether we are going
to continue with this story or not. Um the two small things are do you had out
business cards at ECMAS meetings?
PA: Um, occasionally, um if um most, most of the
time I, I hand them out to people that um want to contact me to find a lawyer
DL: Okay
PA: and obviously if their looking for a lawyer
we, we, if the other theory is correct that we talk people out of getting
lawyer’s and hiring me or someone else then you know that’s kind of false, but
ah we, oh well the majority of the time that my name or number is given out is just so that I can refer them to, to
a lawyer cause they are not happy
with the one they have got or they don’t have one at all and occasionally you
know I, the, the percentages are so low that the number of people I talk to in
support group or kept my cards that actually end up becoming you know paying
clients is, is fairly small
DL: Right.
PA: and you know I get a lot of stuff from other
lawyers that they, you know that know me that I went to school with or
whatever, you know, like ah uncontested divorce or a waiver, they don’t want to
bother with that, send it to [Tim] he’s screwed.
DL: Right. Okay. Um and what does your business
cards say at the moment. GG00524
- 11 -
PA: Sorry?
DL: What does your business cards say
PA: Oh, oh it’s just got my name address and
phone number.
DL: Okay. Any degrees?
PA: Yeah, my credentials are there.
DL: Okay.
PA: But um, that’s, that’s all being ah, ah, you
know, once, once those are out I’m just gonna put my name and ah um either, I,
I don’t know if ill put the company, not the company but a portable[affordable] paralegal on it, because I ran into a situation where, where you know, that was misunderstood so you know
that’s obviously going to be changed when I order the new cards which will be
any time.
DL: Okay. So sorry what, what’s going to be
changed?
PA: Well I, I’m gonna take the credentials off
because that, that um you know has a potential to be um you know people might
get the wrong idea that although it doesn’t say lawyer or Barrister &
Solicitor um non the less those, you know that’s my education that’s my right.
DL: Right. Okay.
PA: But I, I will take my ah, the draft of my
new card, it’s not there anymore because I want to remove any, any doubt or
question that you know I’m trying to still practice more[law]
or anything close to it.
DL: Right, right.
PA: And um you know my position is that I, I
have two things to protect here as ah, I have three children all in school, and
I, I don’t need any um bad press so to speak or even a rehash of you know,
there was, there was enough in the press when this all occurred.
DL: Right.
PA: And secondly I don’t need to raise the ah
heckles of the Law Society, because you know some day somewhere maybe I’ll,
I’ll reapply and um you know I don’t want to have to you know deal with any problems
about any oversights on my part, you know putting the degrees on or you know
not getting people to sign a waiver, it's simply, simply not worth it, my
life’s been ruined once, I don’t want it to be repeated and I don’t want my
children’s life’s ruined either.
DL: Right, right, um I know I said I would only
ask you two questions, but the one thing
I haven’t heard from you is that your concerned about the reputation of
ECMAS, I
GG00525
-12-
hear that you are concerned about protecting the privacy of
your children and I
understand that
PA: Right.
DL: but not once have you said that your
concerned about the reputation of ECMAS, is that just an oversight?
PA: I’m extremely concerned about the reputation
of ECMAS to the point that um ah
I’ve, I’ve made the, I mean the principle players of ECMAS
and many of the people
ah that you have spoken to are aware of my situation if
anyone asksed me about it
I would tell them. I don’t go to
every meeting and start by saying, well my name is
[Tim], I’m a disbarred lawyer and I do this and that and the
other thing
DL: Right.
PA: I, I don’t approach people in that manner
but, it’s certainly not um a topic I avoid, I’m quite, I, I wouldn’t say quite
happy but I am upfront with people that um you know, some people ask what's
your story you know, I’ll tell them right from day one this is what happened
with me and this young person and ah you know I was charged, um I lost my, well
DL: Right, we’ve ya, we’ve been through this.
Sorry to interrupt but, okay so your going to resign as Vice-President, now are
you going to resign your Co-Chair of the support group position? [This was a misunderstanding. Taking turns chairing the
meeting was not any kind of official position.]
PA: Um, yeah.
DL: Okay, okay. Thank you very much for your
time, I’m sorry that this has not been a more pleasant conversation for you, ah
I have to run um will you be around tomorrow if I phone you back?
PA: Yeah and um I’ll give you my cell number as
well.
DL: Okay.
PA: 780-405-7425. And I might add, I mean ah,
you know and I have no basis to support this but um, um other than unconfirmed
information about me you might want to check, if we’re dirt digging you might
want to comprehensively check ah some of your other sources as well, because I
believe that um you know it may well be a case of a pot calling the kettle
black.
DL: Well um, yeah um if you have some
information for me um, I would be grateful but ah you know I, I don’t want to
go with that, you know I don’t know what you are referring to.
PA: Right um, I, I’m just saying that um it’s,
it’s not my style to sling dirt at people and ah although it’s certainly coming
down heavy my way, I um I certainly don’t want to
GG00526
-13-
perpetuate that but you know there, there probably is some
out there, that's all I’m prepared to say.
DL: Um, well, um thank you if there is anything
that you know concrete that you can point me in you know a particular direction
that would be wonderful, otherwise you know it’s just sort of there
PA: No, I, I wouldn’t ah, I wouldn’t say or do
anything unless I had reasonable proof of
it but, I don’t know I guess that’s sad *of some sort, for what use it
is.
DL: Thank you, take care.
PA: Okay, thank you bye, bye.
NOTE OF MESSAGES
Message #1:
PA: Hi Donna, [Tim] Adams just calling back to
clarify one point. In fact, um, re giving
the elections recently, ah there’s, I am not a Co-Chair of the support
group, just for clarification, there is only one Chair of the support group, ah,
ah and that is James Haiden, so I’m, I’m resigning positions that I don’t have.
But ah none the less I was um I was at one point but ah since that election the
only official ah Chair of the support group is Mr. Haiden. Um give me a ring
back if you would like 780-453- 1973.
Message #2:
PA: Hi Donna, [Tim] Adams calling you back um
just to let you know I’ve ah, um had a meeting last night, my resignation was
given to Mr. Bouvier and um hopefully that will serve you at least some
restraint in possibly printing my name and my three children are all in school
and ah I certainly don’t want to expose them to anything embarrassing or
humiliating and um I would also employ you to listen to the eyes of
those who are bringing this sort of thing to your attention and their
supporters and look into their
dirty laundry as well if that’s what this is all going to be about and ah see if ah he who is throwing the first stone is truly
without them[sin], in any event we, we have ah made effort to have other people to contact you
to make sure that this is a fully balanced story if it does indeed run ah
please give me a ring at 780-453-1973 or 405-7425 that’s my cell number. Thanks
very much indeed. Bye, bye.
END OF TAPE
122656A1.WPD;Nov/13/O1
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