Miall -- Karp on schools, student comments

Engl 112. October 18 2006

Students' observations on Karp, "Why Johnny Can't Think."

Para Karp's point Observations

#1 dingy school buildings for our experience, this holds true

#1 no discussions in class as long as students are interested discussions do take place

#5 standardized testing teacher is in possession of the only answer; individual interpretation of the topic is not required: if spoonfed why come up with your own opinion. Teachers should undertake to make their students think, but student must want to learn.

#5 standardized testing seen in Alberta and Ontario; good for statistical purposes, for student placement in comparison to other groups

#5 answers are "right" or "wrong" contrasting experiences: in Grade 9 teacher told what the questions were on the test and what answers to write down; but in another high school class, we were told no wrong answer as long as you could support your answer

#6 teaching to the test frustrating when you are taught to simply regurgitate right answer; don't really learn

#6 lack of initiative; emphasis on the "right" answer high school teachers expect their answer and outline how to get to that answer; loaded questions; discourage individual thinking; one right answer on multiple choices, and short answers that don't allow students to explain why they feel that way

#9 education centered around diplomas tests are only used to determine where money is distributed (to what schools); some children unfit to take tests (nervousness); tests limit materials to what government wants you to learn

#10 overcrowded classrooms 2/3 of group had large classrooms; 1 had only 36 students graduating

#10 overcrowded classrooms not a problem: average around 30 students per class; although smaller number in literature classes are needed for better analysis and discussion

#10-11 overcrowded classrooms early on large classrooms were not conducive to learning to read; weaker readers separated into reading groups are aware of being in the "dumb" group, resulting stigma; importance of language as foundation of thought; education prepares for workforce rather than thinking individuals; learn how to tell what the teacher wants us to think

#14 preferential treatment for higher class students rather, middle class students left behind while lower class brought up to their level; goal seems to be mediocrity though; lower class have fewer skills because parents weren't teaching them at home; but one member of group thought teachers good at bringing about independent thinking

#16 gifted students get the gifted teachers more advanced English classes had more specialized teachers; the way we looked at literature differed from the idea in the essay

#18-19 tracking of students by class not true: up to the student to decide whether to do well or not

#19 tracking of students by class not witnessed by members of this group

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Document prepared October 18th 2006

Para	Karp's point	Observations
#1	dingy school buildings	for our experience, this holds true
#1	no discussions in class	as long as students are interested discussions do take place
#5	standardized testing	teacher is in possession of the only answer; individual interpretation of the topic is not required: if spoonfed why come up with your own opinion. Teachers should undertake to make their students think, but student must want to learn.
#5	standardized testing	seen in Alberta and Ontario; good for statistical purposes, for student placement in comparison to other groups
#5	answers are "right" or "wrong"	contrasting experiences: in Grade 9 teacher told what the questions were on the test and what answers to write down; but in another high school class, we were told no wrong answer as long as you could support your answer
#6	teaching to the test	frustrating when you are taught to simply regurgitate right answer; don't really learn
#6	lack of initiative; emphasis on the "right" answer	high school teachers expect their answer and outline how to get to that answer; loaded questions; discourage individual thinking; one right answer on multiple choices, and short answers that don't allow students to explain why they feel that way
#9	education centered around diplomas	tests are only used to determine where money is distributed (to what schools); some children unfit to take tests (nervousness); tests limit materials to what government wants you to learn
#10	overcrowded classrooms	2/3 of group had large classrooms; 1 had only 36 students graduating
#10	overcrowded classrooms	not a problem: average around 30 students per class; although smaller number in literature classes are needed for better analysis and discussion
#10-11	overcrowded classrooms	early on large classrooms were not conducive to learning to read; weaker readers separated into reading groups are aware of being in the "dumb" group, resulting stigma; importance of language as foundation of thought; education prepares for workforce rather than thinking individuals; learn how to tell what the teacher wants us to think
#14	preferential treatment for higher class students	rather, middle class students left behind while lower class brought up to their level; goal seems to be mediocrity though; lower class have fewer skills because parents weren't teaching them at home; but one member of group thought teachers good at bringing about independent thinking
#16	gifted students get the gifted teachers	more advanced English classes had more specialized teachers; the way we looked at literature differed from the idea in the essay
#18-19	tracking of students by class	not true: up to the student to decide whether to do well or not
#19	tracking of students by class	not witnessed by members of this group